General Manager at a Municipal Facilities? Cancel The title field is required!

1. Heath Puckett

   

   0 posts
   
   3/14/2012 3:03 PM

   How many municipal operations out there have a "general manager" position?
   I need some samples of municipal golf ops' organizational structures or hierarchies if available. Currently, our city is looking at this scenario: Mayor/Council/Park&Rec Director/General Manager/Golf Course Staff.....and I'm trying to convince them to consider an equal but separate Super|Pro setup without a "general manager" position. Our F&B is already outsourced, so I don't quite understand the benefit of a true GM role here.
   What do you think?
   
   Thanks!

   
   
   
   
2. Wahlin Scott B

   
   3/14/2012 4:03 PM

   Our set-up is Golf Operations Manager (Head Pro + Answers to City Commission) and Golf Maintenance Manager (Superintendent + Answers to City Commission) on the same level with our F&B contracted out. The GOM and GMM both report to the Assistant City Manager, and to each other for that matter. It works extremely well for us and is much less costly than the previous set-up, which included a Golf Director/General Manager. We would be happy to do a conference call with you and whoever else you might like to include to talk about it.

   
   
   
   
3. Tom Forsythe

   

   0 posts
   
   3/14/2012 6:03 PM

   Our set up has me as Director, Golf Services and I am essentially the GM and Superintendent. I have a Supervisor of Golf Operations who is a Golf Pro that manages the clubhouse operations but he reports to me. Our F&B is contracted out as well. We are the only two non union positions in the operation. Golf is a separate division within the Community and Emergency Services Department and I report to the General Manager of the department. If there are any Golf reports being presented to City Council I am generally the one presenting them. I can send you an org chart if that would be helpful.

   
   
   
   
4. Wahlin Scott B

   
   3/14/2012 6:03 PM

   Tom Forsythe said: Our set up has me as Director, Golf Services and I am essentially the GM and Superintendent. I have a Supervisor of Golf Operations who is a Golf Pro that manages the clubhouse operations but he reports to me. Our F&B is contracted out as well. We are the only two non union positions in the operation. Golf is a separate division within the Community and Emergency Services Department and I report to the General Manager of the department. If there are any Golf reports being presented to City Council I am generally the one presenting them. I can send you an org chart if that would be helpful.

   
   
   My partner, the GOM is 1-3 years away from retirement. Our org chart is likely to closely resemble Tom's after he retires. I will report to city management and the city commission.

   
   
   
   
5. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   3/15/2012 7:03 AM

   I have worked at two different municipal type facilities. Both are multi-course operations.
   
   Currently, we have a GM/Pro at each course who reports to the assistant parks director over programs, these guys are contract so they can get bonuses on rounds, carts, and I think merchandise, yet they do receive all the benefits a regular city employee gets. They do run the food operations (which consist of basically hot dog slingers). We do have a Golf Facilities Supervisor position (currently not filled) that would report to the assistant parks director who oversees operations. This Golf Facilities Supervisor would oversee the Golf Course Superintendent at each facility. Here are operation is an enterprise fund.
   
   When I worked for a county in NJ, we had a Superintendent/Manager which I was, who over saw each course, our food was contracted out along with a pro shop area if it got rented. They did not have anything to do with the golf courses except at one they had the cart contract due to them building a driving range they ran. These people reported to an operations superintendent and a golf manager at the main parks building. There were 3 people in that office that maintained the computer tee time system and ran programs, tournaments, and outings. When I left they did add a manager at each course, but not quite sure of they are equal to the superintendents are not. I do know golf is it's own division so the operations superintendent is out of the loop.

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
6. Steve Nelson

   

   0 posts
   
   3/15/2012 10:03 AM

   Out here I am the 'Golf Course Manager' a manager pay rating that puts me equal with the Recreation Division Manager and the Parks Division Manager. We all answer to the Parks & Rec. Director. There are two separate commissions, one for parks and rec and one specific to golf. They are appointed by the City Council and are advisory only- meaning they make recommendations but Council must approve fee hikes, policy changes etc. Our F&B and Pro Shop are outsourced so I administer their contracts in addition to my superintendent duties. Anything related to the golf course that makes it's way to a council meeting requires me to be in attendance.
   
   Golf course is an enterprise fund,meaning it must be a self sufficient operating unit. I am responsible for keeping us operating in the black, budget, fees, policies, managing the contracts, and maintaining the course. Since I don't have an assistant and only have a six man crew I also spend some time on machines. Sounds like a lot but it's manageable. We try to stick to the traditional muni role so that helps.

   
   
   
   
7. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   3/15/2012 11:03 AM

   Gus, I enjoy my time on a machine, it is kind of relaxing when needing a break.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
8. Steve Nelson

   

   0 posts
   
   3/15/2012 2:03 PM

   No doubt Mel, sometimes it makes me long for the good ole days before all the stress etc. It at least takes my mind off things for a while.

   
   
   
   
9. Heath Puckett

   

   0 posts
   
   3/15/2012 9:03 PM

   Thanks everyone for the input. The city council has approved a job description for a general manager, under which the golf course supt and golf pro will fall. The [u">requirements[/u"> for the GM position are: a business or related degree, 3-5 years golf mgmt experience, and a Class A PGA membership...

   
   
   
   
10. League Michael

    
    3/22/2012 8:03 PM

    We have our golf pro who is in charge of all golf personnel, he owns the snack bar, driving range, and all merchandising. My input is not wanted when it comes to the financial/business aspect of the course although i have an MBA and think i could really help out with this. Our golf pro reports to the assistant city manager (i have not seen any of the management team from city hall step foot on the golf course since i have been there!)

    
    
    
    
11. Michael Murphy_3

    

    0 posts
    
    3/23/2012 5:03 PM

    Kevin,
    
    Our setup here is Selectman, Park and Rec Commission, Director of Recreation, Pro and Supt who are equal and take care of their own areas of expertise.

    
    
    
    
12. Gary Carls

    

    19 posts
    
    3/26/2012 10:03 AM

    Kevin,
    
    Our current org chart has a Golf Services Supervisor (golf pro and golf shop) and Golf Operations Supervisor (my role responsible for course and building maintenance). We also have a Golf Shop Manager that oversees the pro shop at the 9 hole course we have across town. Our Superintendent of Parks wants to go from this current 3 manager structure to one that only has one manager overseeing everything. My preference and suggestion was that since the golf services and operations are so different and require unique skills we should keep a manager for each of these. I don't think that is going to happen.

    
    Gary K. Carls, CGCS, President - Oakland Turfgrass Education Initiative
    
    
13. Robert Crockett

    

    4 posts
    
    3/27/2012 5:03 AM

    Gary Carls, CGCS said: Kevin,
    
    Our current org chart has a Golf Services Supervisor (golf pro and golf shop) and Golf Operations Supervisor (my role responsible for course and building maintenance). We also have a Golf Shop Manager that oversees the pro shop at the 9 hole course we have across town. Our Superintendent of Parks wants to go from this current 3 manager structure to one that only has one manager overseeing everything. My preference and suggestion was that since the golf services and operations are so different and require unique skills we should keep a manager for each of these. I don't think that is going to happen.

    
    I just got mine revised by the board of commissioner's here at my City Course. When the G-Pro went before them 2wks ago and thought that he was just going to get his contract renewed,they tabled it until the next meeting. I actually got to put my 2 cents worth in. So as far as him being my Supervisor....Null and void. Amazing how a persons demeanor will change. Now we're Fair and Balanced

    
    
    
    
14. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    3/27/2012 10:03 AM

    Gary Carls, CGCS said: Kevin,
    
    Our current org chart has a Golf Services Supervisor (golf pro and golf shop) and Golf Operations Supervisor (my role responsible for course and building maintenance). We also have a Golf Shop Manager that oversees the pro shop at the 9 hole course we have across town. Our Superintendent of Parks wants to go from this current 3 manager structure to one that only has one manager overseeing everything. My preference and suggestion was that since the golf services and operations are so different and require unique skills we should keep a manager for each of these. I don't think that is going to happen.

    
    
    Gary, while I do think there are unique skills to each position, they also share the most important, managing people and money. Unless that one main position over everyone requires golf teaching and ability (which it shouldn't), I believe you are more then qualified. Now I can see your point of what limited turf knowledge those other managers have, so that's why you should get the job????
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
15. Gary Carls

    

    19 posts
    
    3/27/2012 4:03 PM

    Mel,
    
    Thanks, I guess. While I do believe I would be more than qualified for the job as the single golf manager I'm not really interested in it. I enjoy the part of the operation I currently manage with the outside responsibilities but don't really enjoy being inside and around the golf shop that much. I think that structure would work well at operations if you have the ability to hire the right person. Just not what I want to do at this point in my career and I'm probably not the 1st choice if the job came up anyway. Supposedly, if and when things do change, everything will happen by "attrition" whatever that really means.

    
    Gary K. Carls, CGCS, President - Oakland Turfgrass Education Initiative
    
    
16. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    3/28/2012 11:03 AM

    Gary,
    
    That is the bad thing if they were to go to a one person leader over golf down the road. Could always get stuck with someone without a clue.
    
    Attrition sounds like they just wait for certain positions to retire and then change things? That might not be so bad?
    
    Now that I think of it, I sure enjoy the non-stress of dealing with all those headaches I see up around our pro shop, of course most of them are self induced.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
17. Gary Carls

    

    19 posts
    
    3/28/2012 12:03 PM

    Mel,
    
    That's the problem with the term "attrition". They make it sound like they'll wait for everyone to retire on their own terms before the changes take place. Reality is, we already had one staff person transferred out to another crew. Obviously not "attrition" as you or I might view it. It has also been suggested a couple of times already that I might want to be a Parks Manager (not likely). Nothing against parks but I've let it be known that I'm a golf guy, that's what I love, that's what I came here to do, that's what I've done for the last 35 years. Probably sounds pretty inflexible but that's just how I feel about it. I think most of us in this business for any length of time do it because we continue to have a passion for what we do.
    
    In the end, I may not have any choice in the matter as that's part of how many cities operate. I offer input when and where I can about proposed changes but it doesn't seem to matter a lot right now. My focus is still on doing the best I can at the job I was hired to do.If and when that changes, I'll deal with it when I have to as I don't control the final decision.

    
    Gary K. Carls, CGCS, President - Oakland Turfgrass Education Initiative
    
    
18. McCallum David K

    
    3/29/2012 9:03 AM

    Gus and Mel.....totally agree with the seat time. It's hard to beat going out with 3 other fairway units before daylight.........mowing those first couple of fairways with lights and then seeing the sun peek up over the tree lines. Doing my damn best to make sure I mow straight lines as the hired hands do. A very relaxing two hours.

    
    
    
    
19. Gary Carls

    

    19 posts
    
    3/29/2012 9:03 AM

    David,
    
    Having an ever diminishing crew, I tried to get the guys let me mow greens last year but after I mowed one green as practice they decided my talents were needed elsewhere, not on their greens!! That's when they let me get on the fairway mower. You can bet they notice every crooked line and any place I might miss a spot. They also love to watch me climb on and off the mower to pull those stupid 150 yard poles in the middle of the fairway!! It's still a great way to get out of the office for a little break. Not sure what makes it so tranquil but I really enjoy those mornings. Greens aeration is only a few weeks away so my next stint as the "fairway guy" is fast approaching!!!

    
    Gary K. Carls, CGCS, President - Oakland Turfgrass Education Initiative
    
    
20. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    3/29/2012 10:03 AM

    That's why I got sent to school, couldn't mow a straight line.....I used to do ok when mowing fairways at angles, but the tee to green...I can't concentrate that long.
    
    Gary, I hate those poles in the middle of the fairway, if I ever hit a beautiful, straight, and long drive and it hits one of those poles, I'm going to take that pole and.....
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
21. Michael Sullivan

    

    5 posts
    
    4/10/2012 12:04 PM

    My situation is as follows
    Mayor, Director of Operations, Supt of Parks (There is a Golf Commission as well, but more of a Policy Board)
    My Official title is Golf Course Supt, however I am both Supt and GM.
    Our Pro-Shop is a concession that pays us a percentage of cart revenue and the are responsible for the cart operation and maintenance.
    Our restaurant is a Concession as well.
    Both Concessions report to me, but run their own operations.
    Good Lucj
    Michael Sullivan
    Brennan Golf
    Stamford CT

    
    
    
    
22. James Smith

    

    112 posts
    
    8/4/2012 7:08 AM

    I know my situation is not rare by any means but currently we have a person running the golf shop (21yr old Assistant), a office manager that also oversees clubhouse operations and then me (golf course Superintendent). but since the other two managers have been in their positions for less then a year and I have been here 17yrs I tend to get called on a lot. We are a Private Member owned club that has a good board of directors but they generally try to stay out of the managers way as much as possible. At times I wish I was over all labor (with the exception of the managers) in order to try to get our people doing more of their duties, but I really love working outdoors on the course more then being around the members.
    Before the big changes in the management last year we had a Golf Pro/ Generaly Manager who did more damage then anyone in my last 17 years here. The office manager we had found out was not doing even half of her duties as we found out when she left. Sometimes I feel that I should step forward in order to ensure these same problems do not come back up again. It is really hard for me to push myself into that role knowing that once done it may not be able to be undone.

    
    
    
    
23. McCallum David K

    
    8/6/2012 10:08 AM

    Gary could not agree more. I truly enjoy mowing fairways. Alone with the noise of the machine. The cell rings and you can choose to answer or ignore once you see who it is that is calling. Can always tell them sorry couldnt; hear my phone over the machine. See the sun come up, with the early morning shadows on the course, sprinklers going in the distance. For me a truly relaxing time.........I love my LF 1880........I just mow par 3's and one short par 4 !