Aerification Cancel The title field is required!

1. James Rauhuff

   

   0 posts
   
   7/28/2011 9:07 AM

   We have always went with 3/4 in. tines in March, 3/8 in. holes the first week of June and left them open, then back to the 3/4 in. holes in late August. We are in dire need of a deep tine aerification, and thinking about doing this in the fall, along with our normal routine. Would you guys rather take more material out in the fall, or spring? One concern I have with doubling up in the spring is the weather turning hot quickly and drying all those holes out. What does everyone normally do if you are going to deep tine? We have a toro pro core 648, penncross bent, and 20 year old greens. Our course is in Knoxville, TN. Thanks.

   
   
   
   
2. Rosenthal Gregg

   
   7/28/2011 12:07 PM

   Why not have someone come in to do drill and fill in the fall remove material and fill with good material, especially if you have soil greens or bad dry spots. Costs more but good results, sometimes you can even rent machine and do work in house. The toro is good machine for normal use (lots of tine choices and spacing choices) but if you want to go very deep need a different machine. Lots of ways to skin the cat depends on how much disruption and time you have to get job done. Maybe can wait to do later in fall and do less next spring. It has to be a long term plan of attack for long term results...JMO

   
   
   
   
3. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   7/28/2011 2:07 PM

   We deep drill every summer on our 15 year old push-up Bermuda greens here in central Florida. We topdress, drill, then roll and brush it all together. The holes close back up but the drill channel below is left open for drainage. Can't even tell we have been out there 48-72 hours later. I have also drilled, then core aerified the same day with great results. My goal of the drilling is to leave the holes open for drainage during our summer rains.

   
   
   
   
4. James Rauhuff

   

   0 posts
   
   7/29/2011 5:07 AM

   Ok well thanks for your input guys. The drill and fill is an option that I am considering. We did that a few years ago with good results so maybe I can talk our owner into spending the extra money on this.

   
   
   
   
5. James Smith

   

   112 posts
   
   7/29/2011 6:07 AM

   I would think that deep tining your greens in the fall may help your greens be better prepared for the winter months due to the extra root growth you will get from it. but I grow TifEagle which prefers the summer heat to the winter cold so this may be reverses for you.

   
   
   
   
6. Robert Wright

   

   0 posts
   
   7/30/2011 7:07 PM

   I've done deep tine aeration on bentgrass greens both spring and fall. I think the fall application was better because quicker healing and lower stress, mostly because good growing weather, while in the spring it was a bit cold, heavy tournament schedule, and other factors slowed down the healing rate. Both times I did not fill the holes, just left them open. Did the same thing once with the drill and fill, no fill, just drill and let grass grow over the holes. Really helped those usga greens and made our fairy ring disappear all together.

   
   
   
   
7. James Rauhuff

   

   0 posts
   
   7/31/2011 5:07 AM

   Well thanks for your input guys. I would agree that the fall would be a better time to do this because of weather conditions and so forth. How deep do you all go to deep tine and what do you use. Like I said all we have is our toro pro core and the deepest tines that I can get are 6" and they only go around 4" deep, which is fine for regular aerification but not a deep tine.

   
   
   
   
8. Letterman David M

   
   8/1/2011 12:08 PM

   My greens are native soil Penncross/Poa annua of which some have not been touched as far as re-soding in 43 years, 4 were completely sodded in 2000 due to a granular soil sterilant someone decided they needed to apply. Any how, I used to deep tine aerate greens with solid 3/4 inch x 10 inch tines. We would farm out the work each year, but I couldn't really tell if the benefits outweighed a normal shallow core aeration and trying to fill those deep holes with sand was expensive and time consuming. I listen to a talk from David Doughty with International Sports Turf Research Center. We have our poorly drained greens sampled and analyzed by ISTRC each season. They show me how using quad tine spacing and slower forward speed, we could impact more surface area than using larger tines with wide spacing. They sent me a spread sheet displacement calculator which allows me to plug and play with my regimes. Getting the buried organic out of the ground and replacing it with sand is our #1 priority now. We try to get to a target 25% surface area each year, which isn't that hard to do. Our greens have never been healthier and we haven't deep tined in 3 years. We use .5 inch x 5 inch tines on quad spacing and the closest spacing on our JD Aercore 800s. The clean up is tough as it is almost to much material for a sweeper or corehavestor. We pick'em up by hand in the spring and I suspect the fall will be the same. If you are interested, I can email the displacement calculator for you to look at.

   
   
   
   
9. Porter Robert W

   
   8/1/2011 6:08 PM

   David, I would like to see that calculator. I to have bent/Poa greens. Mostly Poa, built in the 30's. They are seriously struggling right now due to wet wilt. We have had horrible hot temps and lots of rain so far this summer.
   
   Thanks

   
   
   
   
10. Baker Daniel

    
    8/2/2011 11:08 AM

    Here are two helpful calculators for organic matter removal and sand displacement. The USGA article is the "Gold Standard" down here and goes into a pretty good explanation. It's a great article to distribute to your Green Committee or ownership when the complain about aerification.
    
    USGA Green Section Record - "Core Aereration by the Numbers"
    http://turf.lib.msu.edu/2000s/2001/010708.pdf
    
    GCI Study
    http://www.golfcourseindustry.com/gci-0 ... -sand.aspx
    
    As for me, I like a 3/8" X 2 in the spring, verticut them heavy all summer (graden every month), a .5 X 2 in the summer and a .75 X 6 X10" solid deep tine going into the fall. It works well for me now but like everything, may get tweaked in the future depending on conditions, tournaments, budgets and expectations.

    
    
    
    
11. James Rauhuff

    

    0 posts
    
    8/2/2011 11:08 AM

    wolfman said: My greens are native soil Penncross/Poa annua of which some have not been touched as far as re-soding in 43 years, 4 were completely sodded in 2000 due to a granular soil sterilant someone decided they needed to apply. Any how, I used to deep tine aerate greens with solid 3/4 inch x 10 inch tines. We would farm out the work each year, but I couldn't really tell if the benefits outweighed a normal shallow core aeration and trying to fill those deep holes with sand was expensive and time consuming. I listen to a talk from David Doughty with International Sports Turf Research Center. We have our poorly drained greens sampled and analyzed by ISTRC each season. They show me how using quad tine spacing and slower forward speed, we could impact more surface area than using larger tines with wide spacing. They sent me a spread sheet displacement calculator which allows me to plug and play with my regimes. Getting the buried organic out of the ground and replacing it with sand is our #1 priority now. We try to get to a target 25% surface area each year, which isn't that hard to do. Our greens have never been healthier and we haven't deep tined in 3 years. We use .5 inch x 5 inch tines on quad spacing and the closest spacing on our JD Aercore 800s. The clean up is tough as it is almost to much material for a sweeper or corehavestor. We pick'em up by hand in the spring and I suspect the fall will be the same. If you are interested, I can email the displacement calculator for you to look at.

    
    
    So from what I can gather, you have had better greens by not deep tining? We pump out of the river for our irrigation so the built up silt is pretty substantial down to around 6", right where we cannot get with normal aerification. I wish that our owner would let us aerify twice in the fall, but he is too concerned with revenue and green speed, than the how healthy the greens are. We have some greens right now that have around 65% coverage, and most of them are thinning from all of the organic matter build up heating the upper layers and frying the crowns, but there is not much you can do when the soil temperatures get up around 100 degrees. That is one of the main reasons I want to double punch so we can get as much of that crap out of there for next year.

    
    
    
    
12. Letterman David M

    
    8/2/2011 9:08 PM

    skidoomn said: David, I would like to see that calculator. I to have bent/Poa greens. Mostly Poa, built in the 30's. They are seriously struggling right now due to wet wilt. We have had horrible hot temps and lots of rain so far this summer.
    
    Thanks

    
    
    Send me a PM with your email and I will send it to you....David

    
    
    
    
13. Letterman David M

    
    8/2/2011 9:08 PM

    jarauhuff said:

    wolfman said: My greens are native soil Penncross/Poa annua of which some have not been touched as far as re-soding in 43 years, 4 were completely sodded in 2000 due to a granular soil sterilant someone decided they needed to apply. Any how, I used to deep tine aerate greens with solid 3/4 inch x 10 inch tines. We would farm out the work each year, but I couldn't really tell if the benefits outweighed a normal shallow core aeration and trying to fill those deep holes with sand was expensive and time consuming. I listen to a talk from David Doughty with International Sports Turf Research Center. We have our poorly drained greens sampled and analyzed by ISTRC each season. They show me how using quad tine spacing and slower forward speed, we could impact more surface area than using larger tines with wide spacing. They sent me a spread sheet displacement calculator which allows me to plug and play with my regimes. Getting the buried organic out of the ground and replacing it with sand is our #1 priority now. We try to get to a target 25% surface area each year, which isn't that hard to do. Our greens have never been healthier and we haven't deep tined in 3 years. We use .5 inch x 5 inch tines on quad spacing and the closest spacing on our JD Aercore 800s. The clean up is tough as it is almost to much material for a sweeper or corehavestor. We pick'em up by hand in the spring and I suspect the fall will be the same. If you are interested, I can email the displacement calculator for you to look at.

    
    
    Yes my greens are better without deep tine aeration. My roots in May and June were 5 to 6 inchs in the profile which is great for a native soil green. Give your owner the breakdown on the cost of resurfacing those green with washed sod or better yet, the 50,000 to 75,000 each for USGA Spec Green. He might change his mind. I use 1/4 Solid Tines on quad tine blocks every 3 to 4 weeks to vent our green throughout the summer for air and water exchange. Of course, I don't get the temperatures like most people get in the summer. Mid-to-Upper 80's with an occansionally 90* mixed in is scorching at 4,400 feet of elevation.
    
    So from what I can gather, you have had better greens by not deep tining? We pump out of the river for our irrigation so the built up silt is pretty substantial down to around 6", right where we cannot get with normal aerification. I wish that our owner would let us aerify twice in the fall, but he is too concerned with revenue and green speed, than the how healthy the greens are. We have some greens right now that have around 65% coverage, and most of them are thinning from all of the organic matter build up heating the upper layers and frying the crowns, but there is not much you can do when the soil temperatures get up around 100 degrees. That is one of the main reasons I want to double punch so we can get as much of that crap out of there for next year.

    
    
    
    
14. Toth Patrick A

    
    11/16/2011 12:11 PM

    Are you the superintendent at your course jarauhuff? Have you personally deep tined while you've been there? How long have you been in the business? Just wondering....

    
    
    
    
15. Wydra David A

    
    11/16/2011 12:11 PM

    In early April two years ago we did both at the same time; 5/8 side ejects at 2" spacing, and 10" solid deep tine at 4" spacing. Sanded them in. Worked great. They were fully healed after 14 days - which isn't all that quick but when the benefits are considered at was well worth the effort. To me the best time is spring time when growth is most vigorous. I'm sure though that that time is different for you being in TN. We're in Central OR in the high desert.
    Dave Wydra
    Awbrey Glen GC
    Bend, OR

    
    
    
    
16. Mark Van Lienden

    

    14 posts
    
    3/29/2013 7:03 AM

    For the people who put sand down before coring what is you choice of dragging and do you pick up the cores on the greens or drag them off first.We have no big blower only two sthil backpack blowers.Our spring aerification is usually wet and sand goes down slow and cores hardly break up.I try to drag them to the collar then use a core harvester.I love the results of keeping heavy equipment off while aerifying but the pick up is hard to get used to.It seems as it takes the same amount of time as picking cores then sanding, then dragging.

    
    
    
    
17. Jeffrey Whitmire

    

    0 posts
    
    3/29/2013 4:03 PM

    We also topdress before coring. We drag the plugs off the green and pick them up from the collars. We then use a greensgroomer brush on a triplex to get the sand into the holes.

    
    
    
    
18. Samuel Leatherberry

    

    0 posts
    
    3/29/2013 5:03 PM

    We use the TurfPride Core collector which drags the plugs off the green. We have experimented on practice greens top dressing first with great success. When we aerate in mid April we are going to topdress first.

    
    
    
    
19. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    3/29/2013 5:03 PM

    The Turf Pride Core Collector is hands down the key to our success. Our process goes like this here:
    
    1. Top dress heavy. Bury 'em.
    2. Core aerify using the Core Collector to drag cores off green and sand into holes.
    3. Once dry, use our Salsco rollers with homemade brushes to brush/roll greens two directions.
    4. You're done.
    
    Nothing with tires go on the green once holes are made. The end result is as smooth of a green after aerification as before. Recovery time has been cut in half. Typically by the Saturday after we core, our members can't even tell we did anything, other than some remaining sand.
    
    [img">http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/andyjorg/CoreCollector.jpg[/img">
    
    [img">http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/andyjorg/SalscoRollerBrush.jpg[/img">

    
    
    
    
20. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    3/29/2013 7:03 PM

    Nice wifebeater, Is that you?

    
    
    
    
21. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    3/29/2013 8:03 PM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Nice wifebeater, Is that you?

    
    
    That employee is no longer employed at this establishment.

    
    
    
    
22. Timothy Walker

    

    0 posts
    
    3/29/2013 9:03 PM

    Because of the wifebeater?

    
    
    
    
23. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    3/30/2013 3:03 PM

    Andy is there any concern on your coring depth with the topdressing on? Or not because of your aerator?
    
    We have the core collector on our old toro aerifier and it works great, but we barely get 3 inch depth without the topdressing.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
24. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    3/30/2013 6:03 PM

    With our Soil Reliever, no it is not an issue. I don't really see how it would be an issue with the 648's either, just get a longer tine. You might lose at the most a 1/4" by travelling over the sand. I just picked up a couple of 648's and planning on using the Core Collectors with them as we'll.

    
    
    
    
25. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    3/31/2013 8:03 AM

    Andy Jorgensen said: With our Soil Reliever, no it is not an issue. I don't really see how it would be an issue with the 648's either, just get a longer tine. You might lose at the most a 1/4" by travelling over the sand. I just picked up a couple of 648's and planning on using the Core Collectors with them as we'll.

    
    
    Thanks Andy, We actually have the older Toro, I will look into the longer tine availability and maybe for the fall we will try it. Starting on Tuesday so we will stick with the way we've been doing it for now.
    
    It would be nice not driving across an aerified green but it hasn't really been an issue for me in the past, it smooths itself out pretty well, it might be worth a go, plus the topdresser isn't setting waiting on the aerifier.
    
    Maybe we'll do our practice greens this spring just to see.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
26. Scott Tullis

    

    0 posts
    
    6/23/2014 8:06 AM

    I have 10? year old Tifeagle greens with significant thatch. I can not aerify without completely tearing chunks of turf out. I am using a Procore 648 and have tried every speed, removed half of the tines, shallowed the dept of penetration, tried dry greens and tried wetting the surface just prior. Any ideas? Will a drill aeration remove enough organic material?

    
    
    
    
27. Keith Pegg

    

    0 posts
    
    6/23/2014 4:06 PM

    I had the problem, with the JD and a little with Toro but it was the down pressure plate with the tines also I tried the 1" close spacing and this is not good went back to 2" by 2" and 3/8" tines and have no problem (½ " were a problem more so), damp but not wet was the best condition. Just finished my greens last week and they are great. Also I sand then core, drag and last sweep and blow to clean up. My greens are 100% sand 1 to 9 years old and I treat them the same from the day they open for play. Putt about 9ft and mow at 3.8mm up to 4.5 winter. All T-1 Bent outside Toyko Japan. We do our greens 3 times a year one machine 2 days average size is 7,000sf. 20 greens.
    Climate about like Atlanta GA.
    Good Luck
    Keith

    
    
    
    
28. Curtis Nickerson

    

    0 posts
    
    6/24/2014 10:06 AM

    Have you tried backing down on the throttle? We run our at about 2900-3100 rpm as per our service rep when we had similar issues

    
    
    
    
29. Charles Stump

    

    0 posts
    
    6/24/2014 12:06 PM

    We had a similar problem and found the switch for auto and manual depth operation was on manual. Tried all different depths and still did it until we moved it back to auto.

    
    
    
    
30. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    6/25/2014 8:06 AM

    Curtis Nickerson said: Have you tried backing down on the throttle? We run our at about 2900-3100 rpm as per our service rep when we had similar issues

    
    
    
    Same here. We run our 648's at about 2,800 rpm.